Discussion:
Massive over-thinking on a re-read, part 00014
(too old to reply)
Chucky & Janica
2011-05-22 12:29:44 UTC
Permalink
And some more, to stop the messages being too long for you poor
petals.

- When Siuan is being overthrown, she says "I'll have your hide salted
and stretched in the sun for this, Elaida. I swear it!". I know I've
mentioned this before, but how does an Aes Sedai *say* this? Wouldn't
she then have to do exactly this, have Elaida skinned? Or would she
just be able to break into her rooms and find a handy hide of some
sort and fulfill her oath on that? How do the Three Oaths allow her to
make such a threat? Of course, it's possible that a penance out on the
farm would leavew Elaida sweaty and muscle-strained and sunburned,
which might satisfy form.

- Luc looks like Rand, Slayer looks like Lan. Perrin notes this, so
the family resemblances must be strong. So Isam, the actual relative
of Lan, must be more closely merged with Slayer. Or Isam was
completely melded into Tel'aran'rhiod and *became* Slayer, while in
the waking world he merges into Luc. Or something?

- Moghedien reveals that the black bracelets and collar male a'dam set
is made of "a form of cuendillar". A form of cuendillar that looks
like black metal, so obviously there are different types and Egwene
has only discovered one. It seems to be the classically accepted form,
though, the white stuff. The collar and bracelets is a rarer kind that
is only identified by a Forsaken. Still, interesting. And they're
flexible. So you can make "a form of" flexible cuendillar without it
fusing, in theory. Which is even more interesting.

- In his Skimming chase and fight in Rhuidean with Asmodean, Rand
again sees multiple black cords running off Asmodean, and he severs
them to win the fight. Now, I strongly doubt these have anything to do
with the True Power, but they're definitely Asmodean's oaths and his
taint-filter. He's still as evil and untrustworthy as ever when
severed, but he is no longer sworn and safe to the Dark One. So
there's some fundamental change there but not in his beliefs or
personality. Only in the way the others would receive him.

- Lanfear is shocked to learn Rand is capable of cutting Asmodean off
from the Dark One ("I did not think that was possible. Why? Do you
think to bring him to the Light? You've changed nothing about him.").
I wonder if it is a Talent. Rand agrees on the change ("He is still
the same man who gave himself to the Shadow in the first place /.../
You told me how little you Chosen trust one another. How long could he
keep it secret? How many of you would believe he didn't do it himself
somehow?"), so it's obviously not a huge deal, except in that it
somehow voids Asmodean's warranty with the Dark One. Which is fine. I
don't think this is really connected to enforced conversion with
thirteen channelers and thirteen Myrddraal, but we'll have to wait and
see.

- I wonder why more merchants don't go into the Aiel Waste dressed up
as Tinkers. The Aiel would leave them alone.



C&J
David DeLaney
2011-05-23 03:47:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
- Luc looks like Rand, Slayer looks like Lan. Perrin notes this, so
the family resemblances must be strong. So Isam, the actual relative
of Lan, must be more closely merged with Slayer. Or Isam was
completely melded into Tel'aran'rhiod and *became* Slayer, while in
the waking world he merges into Luc. Or something?
As near as I remember, we STILL haven't been told how to figure this one out.

(Jordan did say that not all mysteries would be revealed...)

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from ***@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Aaron
2011-05-23 16:28:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
And some more, to stop the messages being too long for you poor
petals.
- When Siuan is being overthrown, she says "I'll have your hide salted
and stretched in the sun for this, Elaida. I swear it!". I know I've
mentioned this before, but how does an Aes Sedai *say* this? Wouldn't
she then have to do exactly this, have Elaida skinned? Or would she
just be able to break into her rooms and find a handy hide of some
sort and fulfill her oath on that? How do the Three Oaths allow her to
make such a threat? Of course, it's possible that a penance out on the
farm would leavew Elaida sweaty and muscle-strained and sunburned,
which might satisfy form.
I think you're taking this a little too far, my friend. It's a
statement of intent. It's not a lie unless it's actually impossible.
And it's not impossible, so it's not a lie.
Post by Chucky & Janica
- Moghedien reveals that the black bracelets and collar male a'dam set
is made of "a form of cuendillar". A form of cuendillar that looks
like black metal, so obviously there are different types and Egwene
has only discovered one. It seems to be the classically accepted form,
though, the white stuff. The collar and bracelets is a rarer kind that
is only identified by a Forsaken. Still, interesting. And they're
flexible. So you can make "a form of" flexible cuendillar without it
fusing, in theory. Which is even more interesting.
This I think is part of why I was considering cuendillar from
different materials and such.
Post by Chucky & Janica
- I wonder why more merchants don't go into the Aiel Waste dressed up
as Tinkers. The Aiel would leave them alone.
LOLZ, true.
Post by Chucky & Janica
C&J
-Aaron
Chucky & Janica
2011-06-03 06:32:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aaron
Post by Chucky & Janica
- When Siuan is being overthrown, she says "I'll have your hide salted
and stretched in the sun for this, Elaida. I swear it!". I know I've
mentioned this before, but how does an Aes Sedai *say* this? Wouldn't
she then have to do exactly this, have Elaida skinned? Or would she
just be able to break into her rooms and find a handy hide of some
sort and fulfill her oath on that? How do the Three Oaths allow her to
make such a threat? Of course, it's possible that a penance out on the
farm would leavew Elaida sweaty and muscle-strained and sunburned,
which might satisfy form.
I think you're taking this a little too far, my friend. It's a
statement of intent. It's not a lie unless it's actually impossible.
And it's not impossible, so it's not a lie.
So she was really honestly intending to skin them and tan the hides?
Post by Aaron
Post by Chucky & Janica
- Moghedien reveals that the black bracelets and collar male a'dam set
is made of "a form of cuendillar". A form of cuendillar that looks
like black metal, so obviously there are different types and Egwene
has only discovered one. It seems to be the classically accepted form,
though, the white stuff. The collar and bracelets is a rarer kind that
is only identified by a Forsaken. Still, interesting. And they're
flexible. So you can make "a form of" flexible cuendillar without it
fusing, in theory. Which is even more interesting.
This I think is part of why I was considering cuendillar from
different materials and such.
Makes sense, as we do (apparently, I note on this re-read) see several
different sorts of cuendillar aside from the white stuff Egwene makes
out of iron (which still seems to be the most common stuff of
cuendillar figurines as well).
Post by Aaron
Post by Chucky & Janica
- I wonder why more merchants don't go into the Aiel Waste dressed up
as Tinkers. The Aiel would leave them alone.
LOLZ, true.
Maybe because a bunch of Tinkers tramping across the Waste and then
staggering back with a huge load of silk, chortling to themselves,
would make the Aiel suspicious.




C&J
David DeLaney
2011-06-03 13:53:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Makes sense, as we do (apparently, I note on this re-read) see several
different sorts of cuendillar aside from the white stuff Egwene makes
out of iron (which still seems to be the most common stuff of
cuendillar figurines as well).
White cuendillar, black cuendillar, red cuendillar, green cuendillar, gold
cuendillar, anti-cuendillar, jewel cuendillar, X-cuendillar, and blue
cuendillar?

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from ***@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Aaron
2011-06-03 13:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Chucky & Janica
Makes sense, as we do (apparently, I note on this re-read) see several
different sorts of cuendillar aside from the white stuff Egwene makes
out of iron (which still seems to be the most common stuff of
cuendillar figurines as well).
White cuendillar, black cuendillar, red cuendillar, green cuendillar, gold
cuendillar, anti-cuendillar, jewel cuendillar, X-cuendillar, and blue
cuendillar?
Someone needs to do a "Bubba" from "Forest Gump" on this one.
Post by David DeLaney
Dave
-Aaron

Someone with a better memory for that scene than I. Or we can all just
imagine it and chuckle.
Chucky & Janica
2011-08-12 14:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Chucky & Janica
Makes sense, as we do (apparently, I note on this re-read) see several
different sorts of cuendillar aside from the white stuff Egwene makes
out of iron (which still seems to be the most common stuff of
cuendillar figurines as well).
White cuendillar, black cuendillar, red cuendillar, green cuendillar, gold
cuendillar, anti-cuendillar, jewel cuendillar, X-cuendillar, and blue
cuendillar?
You've lost me with this reference. Is it a Pern/dragons reference?




C&J
David DeLaney
2011-06-13 06:23:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Chucky & Janica
Makes sense, as we do (apparently, I note on this re-read) see several
different sorts of cuendillar aside from the white stuff Egwene makes
out of iron (which still seems to be the most common stuff of
cuendillar figurines as well).
White cuendillar, black cuendillar, red cuendillar, green cuendillar, gold
cuendillar, anti-cuendillar, jewel cuendillar, X-cuendillar, and blue
cuendillar?
You've lost me with this reference. Is it a Pern/dragons reference?
No - older than Pern, older than D&D. Think James Olsen.

Dave "and the silver age" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from ***@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Steve
2011-06-13 22:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Chucky & Janica
Makes sense, as we do (apparently, I note on this re-read) see several
different sorts of cuendillar aside from the white stuff Egwene makes
out of iron (which still seems to be the most common stuff of
cuendillar figurines as well).
White cuendillar, black cuendillar, red cuendillar, green cuendillar, gold
cuendillar, anti-cuendillar, jewel cuendillar, X-cuendillar, and blue
cuendillar?
You've lost me with this reference. Is it a Pern/dragons reference?
No - older than Pern, older than D&D. Think James Olsen.

Think inert gas.

sk

Dave "and the silver age" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from ***@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the
flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to
see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET
VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all
CAPS! --K.
Aaron
2011-06-03 13:41:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by Aaron
Post by Chucky & Janica
- When Siuan is being overthrown, she says "I'll have your hide salted
and stretched in the sun for this, Elaida. I swear it!". I know I've
mentioned this before, but how does an Aes Sedai *say* this? Wouldn't
she then have to do exactly this, have Elaida skinned? Or would she
just be able to break into her rooms and find a handy hide of some
sort and fulfill her oath on that? How do the Three Oaths allow her to
make such a threat? Of course, it's possible that a penance out on the
farm would leavew Elaida sweaty and muscle-strained and sunburned,
which might satisfy form.
I think you're taking this a little too far, my friend. It's a
statement of intent. It's not a lie unless it's actually impossible.
And it's not impossible, so it's not a lie.
So she was really honestly intending to skin them and tan the hides?
Eventually. Do you really doubt it? This is Siuan, talking about
Elaida! I believe her.
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by Aaron
Post by Chucky & Janica
- Moghedien reveals that the black bracelets and collar male a'dam set
is made of "a form of cuendillar". A form of cuendillar that looks
like black metal, so obviously there are different types and Egwene
has only discovered one. It seems to be the classically accepted form,
though, the white stuff. The collar and bracelets is a rarer kind that
is only identified by a Forsaken. Still, interesting. And they're
flexible. So you can make "a form of" flexible cuendillar without it
fusing, in theory. Which is even more interesting.
This I think is part of why I was considering cuendillar from
different materials and such.
Makes sense, as we do (apparently, I note on this re-read) see several
different sorts of cuendillar aside from the white stuff Egwene makes
out of iron (which still seems to be the most common stuff of
cuendillar figurines as well).
Right. And I did actually remember this stuff but didn't know it
supported my thoughts, or that you would consider it as doing so.
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by Aaron
Post by Chucky & Janica
- I wonder why more merchants don't go into the Aiel Waste dressed up
as Tinkers. The Aiel would leave them alone.
LOLZ, true.
Maybe because a bunch of Tinkers tramping across the Waste and then
staggering back with a huge load of silk, chortling to themselves,
would make the Aiel suspicious.
Oh, come now, the Aiel aren't a suspicious lot, are they?
Post by Chucky & Janica
C&J
-Aaron
Chucky & Janica
2011-08-12 14:36:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aaron
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by Aaron
Post by Chucky & Janica
- When Siuan is being overthrown, she says "I'll have your hide salted
and stretched in the sun for this, Elaida. I swear it!". I know I've
mentioned this before, but how does an Aes Sedai *say* this? Wouldn't
she then have to do exactly this, have Elaida skinned? Or would she
just be able to break into her rooms and find a handy hide of some
sort and fulfill her oath on that? How do the Three Oaths allow her to
make such a threat? Of course, it's possible that a penance out on the
farm would leavew Elaida sweaty and muscle-strained and sunburned,
which might satisfy form.
I think you're taking this a little too far, my friend. It's a
statement of intent. It's not a lie unless it's actually impossible.
And it's not impossible, so it's not a lie.
So she was really honestly intending to skin them and tan the hides?
Eventually. Do you really doubt it? This is Siuan, talking about
Elaida! I believe her.
Yeah, yeah I really doubt it. But once she said it, she would have to.
So Elaida is probably lucky the Seanchan got her.

Best ending for her anyway, I reckon.
Post by Aaron
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by Aaron
This I think is part of why I was considering cuendillar from
different materials and such.
Makes sense, as we do (apparently, I note on this re-read) see several
different sorts of cuendillar aside from the white stuff Egwene makes
out of iron (which still seems to be the most common stuff of
cuendillar figurines as well).
Right. And I did actually remember this stuff but didn't know it
supported my thoughts, or that you would consider it as doing so.
Well, it's all information about cuendillar. I don't know what
thoughts you're referring to so I don't know if it supports doodly
squat. Certainly nothing about the weight there, so that isn't
supported or helped out in any way by the "different types of
cuendillar" information.
Post by Aaron
Post by Chucky & Janica
Post by Aaron
Post by Chucky & Janica
- I wonder why more merchants don't go into the Aiel Waste dressed up
as Tinkers. The Aiel would leave them alone.
LOLZ, true.
Maybe because a bunch of Tinkers tramping across the Waste and then
staggering back with a huge load of silk, chortling to themselves,
would make the Aiel suspicious.
Oh, come now, the Aiel aren't a suspicious lot, are they?
Hahaha, no. They're like the Donbot in "Futurama"'s Robot Mafia.
Totally gullible.




C&J
vaubee
2011-06-13 19:36:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chucky & Janica
- When Siuan is being overthrown, she says "I'll have your hide salted
and stretched in the sun for this, Elaida. I swear it!". I know I've
mentioned this before, but how does an Aes Sedai *say* this? Wouldn't
she then have to do exactly this, have Elaida skinned? Or would she
just be able to break into her rooms and find a handy hide of some
sort and fulfill her oath on that? How do the Three Oaths allow her to
make such a threat? Of course, it's possible that a penance out on the
farm would leavew Elaida sweaty and muscle-strained and sunburned,
which might satisfy form.
While I can see how one could argue that such a statement is more
about intentions than facts which allows Aes Sedai to say something
like this, we see in LoC Alanna say "There is knowledge that would
burn any mind but Aes Sedai". Now this is no intention and not in the
future, so apparently Aes Sedai can say things that are not literally
true (at least I don't think there would be any knowledge that would
really burn a mind), but just figures of speech, just as having
someones hide salted and stretched in the sun.
Post by Chucky & Janica
- Luc looks like Rand, Slayer looks like Lan. Perrin notes this, so
the family resemblances must be strong. So Isam, the actual relative
of Lan, must be more closely merged with Slayer. Or Isam was
completely melded into Tel'aran'rhiod and *became* Slayer, while in
the waking world he merges into Luc. Or something?
That's exactly how I always saw him/them, fused in one entity which
looks like Isam in Tel'aran'rhiod and Luc in the waking world.
Post by Chucky & Janica
- Moghedien reveals that the black bracelets and collar male a'dam set
is made of "a form of cuendillar". A form of cuendillar that looks
like black metal, so obviously there are different types and Egwene
has only discovered one. It seems to be the classically accepted form,
though, the white stuff. The collar and bracelets is a rarer kind that
is only identified by a Forsaken. Still, interesting. And they're
flexible. So you can make "a form of" flexible cuendillar without it
fusing, in theory. Which is even more interesting.
Well the seals are made from cuendillar and they are white and black,
aren't they?
Chucky & Janica
2011-08-15 13:57:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by vaubee
Post by Chucky & Janica
- When Siuan is being overthrown, she says "I'll have your hide salted
and stretched in the sun for this, Elaida. I swear it!". I know I've
mentioned this before, but how does an Aes Sedai *say* this? Wouldn't
she then have to do exactly this, have Elaida skinned? Or would she
just be able to break into her rooms and find a handy hide of some
sort and fulfill her oath on that? How do the Three Oaths allow her to
make such a threat? Of course, it's possible that a penance out on the
farm would leavew Elaida sweaty and muscle-strained and sunburned,
which might satisfy form.
While I can see how one could argue that such a statement is more
about intentions than facts which allows Aes Sedai to say something
like this, we see in LoC Alanna say "There is knowledge that would
burn any mind but Aes Sedai". Now this is no intention and not in the
future, so apparently Aes Sedai can say things that are not literally
true (at least I don't think there would be any knowledge that would
really burn a mind), but just figures of speech, just as having
someones hide salted and stretched in the sun.
Also in Lord of Chaos (was going to mention it when I got that far),
there is a line about how Aes Sedai can say things like this ("I'll
skin you alive and tan the hide") without breaking the Oaths. Well, it
doesn't say how they do it, it just says that they can, so I'll pass
it and try to ignore it from here on in.
Post by vaubee
Post by Chucky & Janica
- Luc looks like Rand, Slayer looks like Lan. Perrin notes this, so
the family resemblances must be strong. So Isam, the actual relative
of Lan, must be more closely merged with Slayer. Or Isam was
completely melded into Tel'aran'rhiod and *became* Slayer, while in
the waking world he merges into Luc. Or something?
That's exactly how I always saw him/them, fused in one entity which
looks like Isam in Tel'aran'rhiod and Luc in the waking world.
Or, indeed, like Slayer in Tel'aran'rhiod because Perrin has seen
Slayer and stuff. So Slayer and Isam look the same, maybe.
Post by vaubee
Post by Chucky & Janica
- Moghedien reveals that the black bracelets and collar male a'dam set
is made of "a form of cuendillar". A form of cuendillar that looks
like black metal, so obviously there are different types and Egwene
has only discovered one. It seems to be the classically accepted form,
though, the white stuff. The collar and bracelets is a rarer kind that
is only identified by a Forsaken. Still, interesting. And they're
flexible. So you can make "a form of" flexible cuendillar without it
fusing, in theory. Which is even more interesting.
Well the seals are made from cuendillar and they are white and black,
aren't they?
Yep, we went there already, but quite right.




C&J

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