Discussion:
Massive over-thinking on a re-read, part 00018
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Mr. Hoity-toity McAsstaster
2011-12-21 17:42:15 UTC
Permalink
My re-read has reached book 7, I will try to re-post my findings here
because it didn't let me do it last time. And I guess nobody is
watching, but that's the cross I have to bear. Yes, I just compared
myself to Jesus. Nobody read his posts either.

- Egwene has some dreams, do we get confirmation on any of them?
Nicola denounces her to the Hall and Thom comes forward to give
evidence, not much there and Egwene ignores it. Mat playing with
fireworks, changing the world. This one is obviously about the
cannons, not that I really see cannons making much difference in a war
where the One and True Powers are getting thrown around. Maybe
Sanderson can make something of it in the next book, with the fight in
Andor. Maybe the One Power can be removed and the cannons play a vital
role in the liberation of the city. It seems handy to have a weapon
that can blast the crap out of channelers before they even know
they're being attacked, but it strikes me as an easy enough thing to
defend against in subsequent attacks. Hopefully one or two Forsaken
bite a dragon's egg before the end. Egwene dreams she's on the
headsman's block and she'll escape if someone runs fast enough.
Something about the Seanchan killers, and Gawyn? Logain steps over
Rand's body and mounts a black stone, but when Egwene touches Rand's
face it falls apart like a paper puppet. Rand fakes or otherwise
cheats death? What's Logain's game? Egwene is connected to a golden
hawk (female), who is this? A man dying on a narrow bed, it's
important he not die but the funeral's already underway, who is *he*?
A dark young man holding a brightly-shining something in his hand, who
is *that*?

- Myrelle is said to have married all her Warders; Egwene seems to
think it's Lan's fault (and not Moiraine's) he got bonded by someone
else when Moiraine passed his bond on; Myrelle thinks it is normal for
a woman to give her husband to another woman in the event of her
death, so he is looked after, which is apparently an Ebou Dari custom.
There's a bit to digest there. Mainly a lot of stupidity though.
Regarding the Green Ajah, it seems some women marry their Warders, but
not all, and Myrelle is somewhat unique for having multiple husbands.
And Egwene is a tool for blaming Lan, unless she thinks he went and
*asked* to be Myrelle's Warder. Is that what we're meant to think?

- Apparently, the girls figure out a way of leaving messages in
Tel'aran'rhiod for one another. It doesn't say how they do this, it
just neatly says that they do it. I thought nothing conjured or
otherwise put / carved into Tel'aran'rhiod lasted, so how the heck are
they doing this?

- Mat gets a note slipped into his pocket, warning him that Elayne and
Nynaeve are still in danger and might yet have to ask Elaida's pardon.
We don't really find out who put the note there, but Mat suspects
Teslyn or Joline. Also, he hums a song that is known, variously, as
"She Dazzles My Eyes And Clouds My Mind" and "Upside Down And 'Round
And 'Round". Weird disco flashback.

- Cadsuane makes reference to a 'vileness' that took place after the
Aiel War. Merana and Annoura at least seem to have no idea what it
was, and Cadsuane doesn't tell. What is this? I can't remember.
Something to do with false Dragons? Tigraine and Luc and all that?

- Min has a viewing of Rand, and another man - neither face actually
seen - touching and merging into one another, and one of them dying in
the process. Rand assumes the other is Lews Therin, but we sort of
know Rand is a tool and is always wrong at this point in the story.
So, is it Rand and Moridin? Rand and the 'third face' he sometimes
sees? Is the third face Moridin? I can't remember this either. Maybe
this gives a solution, Lews Therin can die again and Rand survive
somewhere. Of course, there's also the fact that Rand takes this
viewing to mean he's not mad, but then goes back to worrying about
whether Lews Therin is just a figment of his imagination and he's
going mad after all. Like I said, he's a tool.

- Nynaeve warns Mat to be careful, and repeats her usual prattle about
a storm coming. Later, "Something tugged at his thoughts, something
about the weather, and Elayne, which made no sense, but he shrugged it
off." What was that about? The Bowl of the Winds again?

- Here's an interesting point (mainly for my discussion with Aaron
about forced conversion). Galina reflects that she was freed of the
Three Oaths when she joined the Bkack Ajah, which we knew already, but
she also thinks that she replaced them with a new trinity. So there
are presumably Three Oaths for Black Ajah as well, keeping the ageless
look and everything. What are the Oaths? Nothing to do with lying or
hurting people, but presumably there's the Oath about revealing
nothing until the hour of her death, that Verin mentioned. And some
other Oaths of obedience? It doesn't say, but it looks like voluntary
conversion *is* bound about with some rules, so there must be
something in the forced conversion to enforce them too.

- Rand and Moridin cross swords, balefire-wise, in Shadar Logoth. What
happens there? How much of Rand's later problems does this cause? Is
Moridin likewise afflicted? He clutches his head. Is it just balefire
touching balefire, or is it Dragon and Antidragon touching that does
it? One Power balefire touching True Power balefire (Rand can't sense
any weaves or residue when the man presumably gateways out, and then
remembers that he didn't see any with the balefire either, so we're
probably looking at the True Power)? Moridin (I'm assuming it's
Moridin) says he doesn't know what happened, but of course he could be
lying. Or not Moridin.

- The taint vibrates after the balefire incident, which could be a
precursor to Rand's later problems.

- Rand is about to kill Sammael when Liah is attacked by Mashadar, so
he balefires her and then balefires the surrounding area, and Sammael
is gone (no sign of channeling for a gateway) and Mashadar is floating
where he was before. What an unsatisfactory kill. Is Sammael dead?
Five books later and I still don't know or care. Later on (Knife of
Dreams), Sammael or somebody posing as him has been ordering Trollocs
into the Ways, but nobody *still* seems to know if he's alive. What a
load.

Well, that's about it for A Crown of Swords. For some reason, I will
continue with the rest of the books.


C&J
--
*sigh*
Scott Wood
2011-12-24 20:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr. Hoity-toity McAsstaster
My re-read has reached book 7, I will try to re-post my findings here
because it didn't let me do it last time. And I guess nobody is
watching, but that's the cross I have to bear. Yes, I just compared
myself to Jesus. Nobody read his posts either.
- Egwene has some dreams, do we get confirmation on any of them?
Nicola denounces her to the Hall and Thom comes forward to give
evidence, not much there and Egwene ignores it. Mat playing with
fireworks, changing the world. This one is obviously about the
cannons, not that I really see cannons making much difference in a war
where the One and True Powers are getting thrown around.
Cannons can potentially scale better to a large war (if they can be produced
fast enough) -- there are a limited number of channelers who are strong
enough to be of much use in battle, and even fewer (at least on Team Light)
who aren't restricted by the Three Oaths.
Post by Mr. Hoity-toity McAsstaster
Maybe Sanderson can make something of it in the next book, with the fight
in Andor. Maybe the One Power can be removed and the cannons play a vital
role in the liberation of the city.
Far Madding? Forkroot in the water supply? Targeted strikes on everyone
who's glowing?

Or perhaps all the high-end channelers are busy fighting a separate battle
against other channelers, or trying to deal with the Dark One, etc.

The One Power doesn't seem to have made swords and spears totally
irrelevant, so cannons will likely have their place.
Post by Mr. Hoity-toity McAsstaster
- Apparently, the girls figure out a way of leaving messages in
Tel'aran'rhiod for one another. It doesn't say how they do this, it
just neatly says that they do it. I thought nothing conjured or
otherwise put / carved into Tel'aran'rhiod lasted, so how the heck are
they doing this?
Perhaps they're putting the message in the real world, and viewing its
reflection in TAR -- though IIRC things that haven't been around a long time
in the real world don't show up very reliably in TAR either.

-Scott
Chucky & Janica
2012-01-09 17:11:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 14:24:29 -0600, Scott Wood <***@buserror.net>
wrote:

Welcome to the group. Or back to the group? Sorry I took so long to
respond, truth is I really wasn't expecting responses. This whole
place is dead. Or so I thought.
Post by Scott Wood
Post by Mr. Hoity-toity McAsstaster
- Egwene has some dreams, do we get confirmation on any of them?
Nicola denounces her to the Hall and Thom comes forward to give
evidence, not much there and Egwene ignores it. Mat playing with
fireworks, changing the world. This one is obviously about the
cannons, not that I really see cannons making much difference in a war
where the One and True Powers are getting thrown around.
Cannons can potentially scale better to a large war (if they can be produced
fast enough) -- there are a limited number of channelers who are strong
enough to be of much use in battle, and even fewer (at least on Team Light)
who aren't restricted by the Three Oaths.
That's true. It's also possible that they'd act too fast for
channelers to deal with, at least in the first barrage. If arrows can
potentially take out a channeler (how do they get rid of them in
conventional warfare, for example, fights with or between Seanchan?),
then a cannonball could blow one away before they even think to make a
shield of Air.

After that first time, though, they'd be on guard. Could be enough
though, to take out all the channelers in a force and then mop up the
rest. Don't let them figure out a response to it.
Post by Scott Wood
Post by Mr. Hoity-toity McAsstaster
Maybe Sanderson can make something of it in the next book, with the fight
in Andor. Maybe the One Power can be removed and the cannons play a vital
role in the liberation of the city.
Far Madding? Forkroot in the water supply? Targeted strikes on everyone
who's glowing?
COuld work.
Post by Scott Wood
Or perhaps all the high-end channelers are busy fighting a separate battle
against other channelers, or trying to deal with the Dark One, etc.
Elayne might have a use for them in the fight against the Shadowspawn
in Caemlyn, although she'll have to make cannons fast.
Post by Scott Wood
Post by Mr. Hoity-toity McAsstaster
- Apparently, the girls figure out a way of leaving messages in
Tel'aran'rhiod for one another. It doesn't say how they do this, it
just neatly says that they do it. I thought nothing conjured or
otherwise put / carved into Tel'aran'rhiod lasted, so how the heck are
they doing this?
Perhaps they're putting the message in the real world, and viewing its
reflection in TAR -- though IIRC things that haven't been around a long time
in the real world don't show up very reliably in TAR either.
Yeah, that doesn't wash either. Maybe it's best, if lazy, for Jordan
to just say they figured out a way and leave it at that. Doesn't break
his own rules then.

Of course, he can always make up more rules. Maybe a certain sequence
of weaves or concentration can just *make* a sign. Same as Egwene
talking into dreams to summon people to Tel'aran'rhiod.




C&J

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